When will it be enough?

Julie Havelka

Julie Havelka

Eileen Collins

Eileen Collins


Andra Douglas

Andra Douglas

Sgt. Tatjana Reed

Sgt. Tatjana Reed


WHAT MORE DO WOMEN HONESTLY HAVE TO DO in order to prove to society that they are equal? IS IT THAT PEOPLE THINK WOMEN AREN’T AS STRONG AS MEN? Do they have to become a BODYBUILDER like Julie Havelka who can squat 435 lbs, bench 259 lbs, and deadlift 413 pounds? Do they have to become a NASA SPACE SHUTTLE COMMANDER like Eileen Collins and be first women to pilot and command a space shuttle? Do they have to become a OWNER and QUARTERBACK in Women’s Professional Football League like Andra Douglas on the NY Sharks team? Do they have to FIGHT IN COMBAT and DIE serving our country, like Sgt. Tatjana Reed (among the 109 women female casualties according to Icausualties.org)?
At what point is this still not enough to say that women are as strong as men? When will it be enough?
Wonderwoman

Wonderwoman

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32 Responses to “When will it be enough?”

  1. I think it will never be enough for women to be seen as strong or stronger than men. The fact is that we are born into a society that trains men to become the “providers” and for women to become the submissive housewife. We cant expect men to believe that women can be or are stonger than men if there are TV commericals showing a woman advertising a new kitchen applicance. It is society that must change in order for people to change their idealogies.

  2. wolffie503 Says:

    i mean honestly, how priceless would it be to see a male advertising new kitchen appliances and cleaning products?

  3. Well, what is Mr. Clean about? Actually, he’s probably just there be attract the ladies to doing the housework. But I’m sure I’ve seen some advertisements with men doing the housework. I think our society is getting a little better about these kinds of things…I know we’re not completely there yet, but we’re slowly progressing. Hopefully something won’t set us back again. Oh, I just thought of a super manly man advertising cleaning products….that guy that advertises Kaboom! Or whatever that super power laundry detergent is. Just because it has a super kick butt formula that demolishes stains, doesn’t mean it’s a more manly cleaning product. It comes in a purple bottle too.

  4. astrangerwithcandy Says:

    Though there is no doubt in my mind that woman and men are intellectually equal, I never understood the argument over physical equality. There has been, and always will be, fundamental differences in the way our bodies are structured. Men produce more testostorone than woman, which is why they’re bodies are usually more musclualr. Not to say that there aren’t strong woman, but on the whole, I don’t think there’s any comparison. Take for example the NBA, where I would say eight out of ten players can dunk. Compare that to the WNBA there are only three player who are capable of dunking in the entire league.

    Men were designed to be hunter gathers, woman were to designed to nurture. Both genders have there pros and cons, and what woman lack physically is make up for in other areas.

  5. thekingofeurope Says:

    wolffie503, ever here of Ron Popeil?

  6. wolffie503 Says:

    hey would be a fine example of male advertising, I don’t know much about him but I remember a couple commercials when I was a kid.

  7. I just had my media ethics class on Tuesday in which we talked about the feminist movement in the United States today. Believe it or not it doesn’t take much to be feminist. It is said that as long as you believe in any shape or form that a woman SHOULD hold the same rights as a man, then you ideally believe in feminism. It’s rather difficult to say the word “feminist” without it receiving any backlash because it does sound forceful and strong. But in any case, the fight for feminism is still going on today.

    Feminism movements have deep roots which go way back to the days in which our country was born. Women were not allowed to vote, work, or go to war. This is considered to be the first wave of feminism. The second wave of feminism came in the 1960’s in which women felt that despite having more PRIVILEGES that men have, there were not getting the same BENEFITS. For example, in the work force, men got paid more than the women. Another controversy of the second wave was the right of having birth control. Both of these stemmed out to be major reasons feminism is dealt with strongly because fairness has been given but the rewards have not been equaled up.

    Today there is a third wave of feminism. It is essentially the concept of trying to clean up the past misconceptions that feminist movements had in the past. It is rather undefined in terms of what issues they are trying to follow but there is a lot of passion for it today.

    So will it never be enough? No. There are countless amounts of differences that separate a man and a woman that are hard to reconcile. The issues between men and women are also shared within their own gender. It is difficult to see a balance of the two.

    On an interesting note, I just saw Atmosphere in concert 2 weeks ago. Many have the misconceptions of what a feminist is, look no further than Slug. He is the lead vocals of the group and shares his ideas of the betterment of women in a lot of songs. Check him out because he comes up with a lot of good stories in his lyrics that you feel for. Feminist or not.

  8. wolffie503 Says:

    I think based of your definitions of feminism, I would probably consider myself to be feminist then. I was going to go to the Atmosphere concert a couple weeks ago but I ended up not going, I ended up just dropping a friend off. What ethics class are you taking? Thank you for answering my question though (When will it be enough?), it may be rhetorical, or it may not. And i also do agree with you that there is variation among genders as well. For instance, some women may think it is completely fine to be a housewife whereas other women feel that that’s the end of the world. And I respect that! That is why I am so grateful that over time, women are getting more options than they used to, and I would want the same for my children to be able to live out their dreams despite their gender.

  9. fngrnailtree Says:

    I almost blame the women. Not to say guys aren’t shovenistic at times but common, i rarely see a guy these days who will not be proud of their strong wife/girlfriend. Women expect things from men, and men expect things from women. There are expectations around the board and i believe that it all boils down to the balance of equals. we need each other to keep things going and by design when we work harmoniously things get done much faster and better on a grand scale. Yes it’s going to be hard to break some stereotypes but that’s all on the women. I feel that they put themselves there in the first place… not any individual women, but there must have been a great generalization for said stereotypes to have occurred. Women in the world, not just America, have come along way but in the greatest nation who are hoisted on the shoulders and splattered all over women magazines? Paris Hilton, Anna Nicole, NewYork… And it’s safe to say they’re not there because of their brains. They’re their because women still have envy or desires to be that symbol… like before no one in particular but as a broad generalization about broads (joke!). I think that when the heroine’s or the idea of the ideal heroine changes then we’ll see that women have changed the direction. it’s on its way there and the ball of change keeps rolling. thought though… Ancient Hawaiians thought women were too powerful. Kamehameha himself got down on his knees and worshiped his wife who was as he felt of higher power.

  10. fngrnailtree pointed out something very interesting in the last comment: “Ancient Hawaiians thought women were too powerful. Kamehameha himself got down on his knees and worshiped his wife who was as he felt of higher power.” Saying that women were for once more powerful than men in that certain period of time and in that culture. so in this case, were there still equality amongst women and men? Its either/or. It seemed to be hard maintaining this ‘equality’ now and even before.

  11. Although this is apparent comparison to make its a very difficult one. I agree with astragerwithcandy, on an intellectual level, men and women are equals. However, the main differences occur in there anatomic make up. Men are generally stronger. Working out obviously improves strength (cause i aint messing with Julie Havelka or her tire) but men have it in their genes to produce more testosterone so they have more potetial to be stronger. Theyre just anatomic differences. Gender value isnt determined by a strongman competition is it? If it is girls might be srewed…except Julie and her tire.

  12. alamoluck007 Says:

    What is equal?!Define that for me! Beter yet, can anyone make sense of this blog? You show pictures of women acomplishing great thing (If lifting a tire above your head is considered that) and coming out of the shaddows men have created for them. Then thes last picture is a sex symbol created by men that some would argue is sexist. Some women scream equality but dont know what they mean! We are not equal! Lifting a million pounds doesn’t make you a man, or the same. We are all diffrent people, we have diffrent sex organs, and body shapes. Our brains are designed diffrently, THESE ARE PROVEN FACTS!!! stop crying and thrive in the fact that you are diffrent then a man. BE HAPPY!!!!

  13. Ohh yes, Jeffrah made a good statement about the testosterone. In bodybuilding … well, women’s bodybuilding, women take testosterone pills to improve muscle tone and strength. Very interesting huh, to do whatever it takes to get strong and build up muscle… to be more like man. Are they trying that hard to become equals? I think that taking testosterone is pushing it to the extreme.

  14. Sure, women and men will never be equal in their anatomy…or else the human race would not continue. However, perhaps the real motivation certain feminist movements is for equality of recognized intelligence, dignity, bravery, and being “right.” Men have belittled women in the past based on intelligence, saying that they minds were insufficient to process pros and cons of candidates in elections and vote. Problems like that, but perhaps at a lesser degree, continue to exist today.

    As for the comment about women doing this to themselves…why do you think woman idolize these beauties? It is because men set the standard for what most generally arouses their penis or whatever, and therefore kind (or yeah sure, sometimes slutty) women want to impress and conceive. Okay, there is also a lesser degree of reasons for copying beauty stereotypes. To fit in, as guys want to do as well, to get the respect of a male boss, etc. etc. Women sometimes have to take on these male constructed ideals of beauty. If I really had it my way, I’d be prancing around in long flowing rice bags with holes cut for my appendages. What then? I’d probably be ridiculed by the public and shoved into some crazy home.

  15. I am HAPPY that I am a woman, and I already said previously that I was thankful that women have gone a long way in US History. I said that I am thankful that I have more opportunities for careers, sports, etc. than what used to be. I put the wonderwoman image on their because I wanted to see what people would say about it. It has sex written all over it, which you can almost blame woman on that one. You reap what you sow, if you dress in a sexual manner you are going to get a sexual response. But the idea of “wonderwoman” too, I was just curious what people think the ideal wonderwoman would be like? whether its being a single mom who works full time and somehow manages to find time to care of her kid or bodybuilding who knows. And for the comparison between men and women, we are anatomically different, yes, but I am not saying that all men are stronger than women (either mentally, emotionally, or physically).

  16. alamoluck007 Says:

    ok my question is what is your goal in specific… When will women around the world say “ok I think we got what we are after!” What do you want me, as a man, to do in order for you, as a women, to say ok ill shut up now. Do I have to wear signs on my shirt that say “women are just as strong as men!” This is such a sad stereo type! Men think women are less equal. THAT IS A STEREO TYPE! Just because a small fraction of the population thinks that way doesn’t mean we all do! So stop stereo typing men and making dumb posts like this!

  17. thats a good point. stereotyping men or society as women haters isn’t a good way to promote equality. Where in the new generation, I really feel that overall, most men dont think of women as inferior. How could you see yourself marrying someone you feel you’re better than? Im sure there are groups of men that do believe that women are inferior and that is unfortunate. But there will always be people hating on gender, race, etc. for no logical reason. Lots of people in this world, bound to have some crazies.

  18. I just realized that this is posted under “free porn” and wondering what it really has to do with that. I think it would probably be better to be tagged under “power in pink” or something. Dunno.

    Yeah it’s pretty true that majority of US society has grown beyond women hating. I mean, I’ve got a job where I get paid the same amount as men for doing the same work, no real bias at school, etc. I think perhaps the inferiority of women now days is more related to being inferior in terms of controlling emotions/remaining rational, and also being labeled as slutty when doing things that guys would be patted on the back for doing. But not really.

    I think everyone would have their own personal idea of wonder woman. Some might imagine a headstrong, goal oriented woman with black-rimmed glasses, another might imagine some big-boobed blond with a killer booty. I don’t know. Really, it doesn’t really matter because it’s all so subjective.

  19. alamoluck007 Says:

    4097 deaths in Iraq. All men. 107 deaths in Iraq. All Women. 4097 men died, while 107 women died. Thats not equal… Men sacrifice more… these are just the numbers… just the facts…. you girls are about 4,000 casualties short of beein even…

    …Alamoluck007 wins dickhead of the year award!

  20. alamoluck007 Says:

    Oh another thing. You want to know why women are called sluts while men are praised for getting with a lot of girls? Its all about level of difficulty… Would you praise your friend for breathing air? No! So what? Its everywhere and easy to obtain. Girls can get dick anywhere anytime. Now if ur friend got a mansion, you would say “holy crap! how did you do that! your the man!” Women dont want it 24/7 like guys so its just a “little” bit harder to obtain. If your a girl do this experiment… Turn to your male friend in the middle of a conversation and say “have sex with me.” He will say “what?!” You respon “really i always wanted you, i need it.” He will say “reluctantly” ok. Now imagine if he asked you that… HELL NO!!!!… i rest my case…

  21. astrangerwithcandy Says:

    How in the motherfuck could you possibly site the amount of casualties in a war as an argument against female worth? There’s a disproportionate ratio of males to females in the military, your comparison is skewed. Moreover, your comment implies that female deaths somehow bear less significance than males.

    Congratulations! Not only are you a dickhead, you’re an insufferable cunt to boot.

  22. wolffie503 Says:

    COMMENT 1
    “4097 deaths in Iraq. All men. 107 deaths in Iraq. All Women. 4097 men died, while 107 women died. Thats not equal… Men sacrifice more… these are just the numbers… just the facts…. you girls are about 4,000 casualties short of beeinG even…” FROM …Alamoluck007 wins dickhead of the year award!
    ATLEAST YOU OPENLY ADMIT THAT YOU ARE A DICKHEAD AND YOU DON’T TRY TO DENY IT.

    COMMENT 2
    But at least you starting a good discussion with a guy asking a girl for sex vs. a girl asking a guy for sex… I think you have it wrong though..The reason why some women say HELL NO is that they are selective and they don’t want to sleep with just anyone. Whereas, for some men, they think with their “head” and if any girl were to ask a guy to have sex with them..of course the guy would say yes. Some men don’t care who they have sex with just as long as they are willing. WE are both making stereotypes about genders when it comes to this one.

    COMMENT 3
    Earlier, Alamoluck007 asked, “what do men have to do in order for you, as a women, to say ok ill shut up now. Do I have to wear signs on my shirt that say “women are just as strong as men!.” As a women I don’t want you to wear a shirt that says that, but I would want you to treat a woman with respect and that they are not inferior to you. CHAUVINISM, like Dick Masterson, mabtw.com, are the reason why I raise the question of SEXISM. Nonetheless, I do think that there are some men out there that feel that women are equal to them, it’s just chauvinistic ass holes (like Dick) give women a very bad impression of men.
    Here are several quotes from Dick Masterson:
    *”A woman has no responsibilities because I don’t expect her to get this right”
    *”A penny saved is a woman fired. WOMEN shouldn’t be allowed to vote”
    * “YOU CAN’T BLAME WOMEN FOR WHAT THEY DO WRONG IN THE SAME WAY YOU CAN’T BLAME A DOG FOR WHAT IT DOES WRONG, IT’S YOUR FAULT (AS MEN) FOR NOT TRAINING HER PROPERLY”

    this IS BULLSHIT…

  23. There will always be radicals like dick masterson who have no respect for women. But that doesnt make it okay to say that that is the opinion of every man.
    Man alamoluck007, you got some screws loose in your head. Comparing man’s value to a woman’s value by counting casualties is sickening. you’re making a comparison that doesnt even start on a level playing field. And how can you back up the double standard that a women who has sex with a lot of guys is a slut while a guy who has sex with a lot of women is a pimp by saying that its easier for women and harder for men. Maybe its hard for you to get a women with that kind of insight. This springs from the media and music artists portraying and promoting this double-standard.

  24. wolffie503 Says:

    Ok…so maybe this is a little feministic..but WOMEN..would you want to have your man make all your decisions for you? Would you want your man to treat you like a dog and “train” you? Would you want your life to consist of a relationship where your man is constantly controlling your every move? Would you want a man who thinks that the only thing women are good for is to please her man? Would you want to live your entire life depending on someone that doesn’t respect you?

    FOR ME…HECK NO. I’m sorry but I like having my own voice, I like making my own decisions, I like having my own responsibilities, and I plan on taking care of myself. IF you leave all of this up to someone else, they make let you down, then where would you be? This is selfish, but you honestly should think of yourself and what you NEED to do in life, and not what HE wants you to do. It’s not that I don’t believe relationships won’t work out, relationships are good, but make sure your relationship is a positive one and that you guys work together as a team. “you should bring out the best in each other, not the worst.”

  25. loveandletlove Says:

    Women don’t have to do anything to “prove” they are equal; this inherently suggests that there is something to prove. Women have been heading societies, fueling economies, perpetuating life, and bettering civilization with their ideas and ingenuity since the beginning of time. That women have struggled to be treated equally and have historically been denied the rights and privileges they deserve as humans is not any result of their shortcomings or failures. It is sexist dominant ideology that is at fault.

    It will take a major paradigm shift before we don’t see people as gendered individuals, and this goes for men as well as women. A lot has happened in the past century to advance women’s equality in the western world, but the fact that the poster’s question is phrased the way it is is testament to the frames of reference still in play.

  26. who are you responding to?

  27. alamoluck007 Says:

    hahaha look at these poor unfortunate souls who dont understand the point of this assignment!!! hahahaha you think i really am a chauvanist?! you are such an idiot!!! im helping you with this assignment you jackass wolfie!!! if i said a bunch of shit like: “women need respect” u think anyone would respond?! Look at all my responses, i go against any post people put up purley to get 3 responses for this class assignment. I am doin you a favor and ur dissing me personally!!! what an idiot! Heres a hint… go onto any blog, say the most dick shit you can think of, and watch ur responses build! ahahahaha

  28. joocebawks Says:

    Would it be off base to say Women kinda bring it upon themselves? At the expense of sounding really cliche, aren’t the men the ones who are always expected to open the jars, kill the bugs, carry the luggage, move the refrigerator with help from his other male friends, just to name a few?

    Now I am not going to make a sweeping generalization about all women, but it seems some women like the idea of seeming weak and helpless because they want to be taken care of. This isn’t to say that you couldn’t carry the luggage yourself, Julie Havelka looks like she could move a refrigerator all by herself haha, it’s just that this kind of behavior reinforces a stereotype that has been passed down for long long time. Logically, if someone wants to be treated equally, they have to act accordingly to be seen as an equal.

    As a side note, it was mentioned in an above post that Women were viewed as more powerful than men in the ancient Hawaiian days. Just wanted to say that I also learned that in my Hawaiian studies class and thought it was an interesting point.

  29. alamoluck007 Says:

    ps just statting the facts by saying 100watever women died ur researech is biased toward women and u fail to mention mens losses. are you tryin to say men are not equal to women? what do we have to do as men to get ur respect?!?! Do we have to lift the most wieght out of any human in the world (including women) like ronnie coleman? Do we have to be the first people on the moon like buzz aldrain? Do we have to continue to dominate the NFL with an all male league? remeber no women has ever played in the nfl nba or mlb nhl and they are allowed to play! while men are not allowed to dominate the wnba! women have the right to play in all our leagues. you know what these women are missing?! the ability to beat men! MEN DOMINATE WOMEN 4LIFE!

  30. thekingofeurope Says:

    alamo, you’re doing it wrong.

  31. astrangerwithcandy Says:

    Alamo sounds like Dick Mastersons apprentice.

  32. loveandletlove Says:

    joocebawks – That women believe they are weaker and need taking care of only proves that they are buying into the same ideologies as men. When the media and society perpetuates the idea that women are inherently inferior to men and that there are certain roles they have to play, you bet they’ll come to believe it.

    People make the same argument about blacks – that they somehow bring poverty, discrimination, and crime upon themselves. The fact being overlooked in both instances is how blacks, women, and other minorities have been SYSTEMATICALLY disadvantaged for so long that it is not simple or easy to rise above their situations. It is well documented that oppressed minorities often come to believe in their own inherent failures and lack of worth because it is in everything that surrounds them.

    Like I said, there will need to be a major shift in the way people think and believe before we can see any sort of change.

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